Comments on: Club Soccer Scene in the United States Is Officially In a Dangerous Position

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 23:35:26 +0000

The flaw in your thinking is that owners know they can be very successful running a minor league operation. Look at the Goldklang Group. They run 3 or 4 minor league baseball teams. Each one operating in the black.

People don’t support the USMNT for 2 reasons, and neither of them have anything to do with success (people STILL root for the Chicago Cubs, right?) First, few people in the US care about international competition. We live in our own little world, and if it happens outside the USA, it really doesn’t matter. Look at all other pro sports in the country. Baseball, basketball, football & hockey. The closest we get to international competition is a Bruins/Canadiens game. The other problem has to do with what I call Beltway Fans. In Washington DC nobody really supports the Nationals, Capitals or Redskins because everyone in DC is from somewhere else.

Personally, when it comes to international competition, I root for Ireland first, USA second.

But besides that, this is just a poorly written piece. I’m not even really sure what the point is. Sorry, Daniel. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but some people just shouldn’t be given a platform.

By: Roger

Roger — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:09:06 +0000

Dont you think that ESPN could benefit with promotion and relegation bringing meaninful soccer clubs to hundreds of markets throughout this big country instead of just a few?
Dont you think that would increase tv ratings?
There is a principle that the lords of the game in the us forget, soccer is the most popular sport in the planet for a reason, there is certain global mentality about the game. It should not be a benefit to only a limited amount of cities to have a club.
It should not be a little group of bussinessmen owning our game. It should be open for all to compete and enjoy.
Promotion and relegation is the ONLY system that can accomplish that in a meaninfull way.
the logic is twisted in america.It should be soccer first, and the money will follow. Here the owners off the “show” think about money,marketing,money ,marketing.
the problem with us soccer is that we dont have soccer people in the decision making positions ; we have bussinesmen instead.
In my opinion the hope of US soccer rest with the fans, we have to make our voice heard. I know that the real soccer fans want promotion and relegation; but until they dont see a banner on every stadium with a big { ^v pro/rel} sing, it wont happen.
Remember the shout-outs. When fans started walking out every time they had shout-outs , thay had to shout the shout-outs OUT.
It will be the same with pro/rel . The real soccer fans have the power to make it happen, we have not realized it yet.

PD: to the people that acuse us of being “eurosnobs” , and use the argument that our american sport culture is somehow diferent than the rest of the world; I would like to ask:
Is US culture more diferent to european culture than Japan’s,or Bazil, or South Africa(they use pro/rel).

Promotion and relegation is not an “european” soccer thing, it is a world thing.

By: thomas

thomas — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:49:49 +0000

Promotion/relegation is the only way to institute meritocratic sporting principles and ensure soccer is legitimate in the eyes of fans.

League and franchise owners can whine on about protecting their business interests all they like, but unless and until they can show significant commitment to the fans and players who support the profession they have no right to expect any entitlement to any business whatsoever and their pampered a**es are gonna get beaten every time.

Owners have responsibilities to the community they operate in – the whole thing dies if they become a parasite.

So all power to the new NASL – MLS and USL will be forced to open up or come to an accomodation with them – free association rules!

By: Chris

Chris — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:22:24 +0000

Oh geezes Roger, you are a such a Eurosnobbish tool. Pro/Rel is never going to happen in North America. EVER!!! Do you honestly believe it would be good for soccer if New York and Los Angeles were relegated to a lower division and replaced with Rochester, N.Y. and Fresno, Calif.? I’ll tell you who wouldn’t think so. A television network rights holder like ESPN, who’d be demanding a HUGE refund if they ever lost a big market city or two because of relegation to satisfy the idiotic demands of dreamers like you.

North America (meaning the U.S. and Canada) isn’t like the rest of the world when it comes to sports. Europe has single tables and pro/rel, even in other sports like basketball and hockey. North America has divisions and conferences and playoffs in all sports because that’s what the sportsfan here expects, and what drives the market. And you know what? It hasn’t hurt the talent development in those sports here. And soccer will be no different, unless people like you get a hold of it and ruin it to satisfy your selfish whims. So either you accept MLS the way it is, or don’t follow it. We can do without your kind of thinking.

By: Roarschach

Roarschach — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 17:09:44 +0000

Charles, you’re just one more Seattle fan that thinks the Sounders have saved the league. Please.

Come back when you have been more than a blip on the timeline of the league. Your city showed that it can easily ignore a good club when you were winning championships in 2008 and earlier. Are we just a season or two away from the Sounders going back down to the sad attendance levels you have been at for over a decade? We’ll see.

Can the Sounders franchise keep pumping out thre required marketing spends to keep the Seahawks fans coming to see the Sounders during the offseason? That will bankrupt a club quickly. Most of your fans are either American Football fans or more of the passively interested in soccer and many of them are already not renewing their season tickets from what I have heard. There’s a good chance the Sounders can help MLS (aka “the MLS” as you call it) actually fail if they can’t hold up their self-annointed responsibilities as the league’s marquee club in the coming years.

In short, your comment about Seattle saving MLS is bunk. We look to Vancouver and your rivals Portland to see what the Northwest will really mean for the league. Until then, get off your high horse.

By: Roger

Roger — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 05:22:12 +0000

Promotion and relegation is the only formula US could use not to let about 30 STATES out of a chance of having a soccer team to represent them.
I am getting to the conclusion that in order for that to happen it would have to be us the fans the ones to finally make a serious league in this country.
If the real soccer lovers get organized, with a little imagination and hard work we can pull this off. I am getting to the conclusion that the head of US soccer is too much in bed with financial interests in order to do the right thing. It is hard to believe for me at this time that their priority is the fans.
MLS has to fail in order for US soccer to get ahead. Since the begining this league has no soul. They created it like a produt to be sold.

There is a reason why soccer is the greatest sport in the planet.The clubs have various diferent meanings for the fans. Sometimes there is a religious issue like the one on Scotland between Rangers and Celtics.Sometimes it is the club of the “people” against the one backed up by the upper class. Other times it is political like the case in Italy between Lazio and Livorno.
The fact that soccer is in such a direct contact with reality, generates a passion that gives this sport a magic touch.
I love this game and I ive here in the US. I wish with all my hart to see it succed here, but this synthetic “product” that we have been sold;it is so fake that completly fails to gets me inspired.

There is a Haitian team in Miami that every time it plays , 5,000 people or more go to see and follow pasionatelly. They broadcast their games on creole on the radio. Im sure that all througout the country there should be similar cases. Those are the real fans.
By creating a league the way they did,they forgot about the real fans and tried to take advantage of the momentum after the 1994 World Cup to make a profit. There should be no doubt at this point that this leagues interest in to protect owners interest, they do not care about the game or the fans, otherwise the Vancouver Whitecaps and the Islander should have been on MLS, no Portland and of course no Philadelphia.

This is my view of how an US soccer league should be:
The right way to do it is to start from the bottom, not from the top like they did it. Instead of “creating” from scratch 12 soccer franchises like they did; we should give teams like the haitian in miami and others alike a chance to get “afiliated” to the league.
There should be an affordable price for this clubs to affiliate, not 40 million dollars .
There should be promotion and relegation, so that clubs have to earn on the field their rights to the upper levels.Clubs would be force by competition to field a good product.
No salary cap is essential for an US league to be able to atract the best soccer talent on the planet.
This aprouch should generate lots of small and medium size clubs afiliated to a leages system linked by promotion and relegation.That way we would take all that ground that “trditional american sports” leave out.The key to succes should be to make franchises affordabe , no otherwise.
Soccer should give comunities a sense of pride by offering them a chance of been represented by a local club

Eventually some clubs would grow and be suscesfull therefore they would move up in ranks.The “cream of the cream” would raise to the top. The big stadiums, the big name players, and so the big money would follow.
We should welcome european, mexican and south american clubs to engage with franchises.
The idea should be to start from the base up.
Let comunities build their clubs by making it affordable.The local rivalries , the meanings of clubs flags, the magic of the game would follow naturally. The real way, the essense of the game would not betrayed US.
Profits should be a result of the magic of soccer, not a reason stoping us from enjoying it!!
Roger

By: J

Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:49:21 +0000

Roger,

Your logic runs in the way of business sense and current trends in world soccer. If anything, world leagues are going to eventually move away from pro/rel. as it makes less business sense overall for clubs. Pro/rel was established when the game was a hobby — an activity, not a business.

The idea of course is a lot of fun and adds a lot of drama. Business people however hate these two things… Wouldn’t be surprised to see a push to get pro/rel out of England in the next 10 years, just like the idea of starting a “premier league” in it’s time was a foreign one, it’s there now. Starting a premier league without pro/rel is not far off, IMO.

By: Roger

Roger — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:11:17 +0000

I believe there is such a thing as the soccer gods,and at the end US soccer is going to get it right.
In my view the problem that US soccer have had is that somehow people with no soccer background and mostly on it for the cash have found their way to the top of the desicion making positions.
They have succeded selling the idea that promotion and relegation would not work in america and therefore US soccer has never had a league that practiced pro/rel in a serious way.
USL kind of did it but not for real; they would get a new team inserted straight into their first division in complete disregard of the ones on their second division and that practice defeats the pro/rel purpose.
By not practicing pro/rel US is not in tune with the philosophy FIFA tournaments try to cultivate, which is inclusion , give everybody a chance, lets add up and get together.
Look for instance at the world cup, tiny little islands try every four years to qualify. Some of these little islands entire population could fit into the Azteca, yet they are granted a try even though realistically they may have no chance. The right to compete is a central part of this sport beauty and it should be one of its core values.
We all know that promotion and relegation is widely practice in world soccer, yet in no other country it makes more sense that in North America.
The first reason is because of our size,we are one of the biggest countries in the planet so having a main league with a limited number of teams is a waste of our potential, it leaves too much “outside”.
Another reason is competition.An US soccer league not only has to compete against other soccer leagues in the world but also with the other 4 mayor US sports. These other sports have the best talent on their fields and a huge propaganda machinery behind them.
These other “mayor” sports are run like monopolies (even though they would not admit it) , they are run by the owners like a private club, that way the money goes to a little group of selected owners.Therefore they leave a lot of “ground uncover”; I’m talking about many cities that could potentially have franchises but dont.
The right strategy should have been to hit them on their Achilles tendon, and promotion and relegation would have done just that; give a chance to have a team to represent them to all cities,communities or institutions that are left out of the current US sports system.
Money is another point. Bringing the best players in the world is an essential factor for an US soccer league to succed. Eliminating the salary cap and encouraging competition for promotion to higher divisions is the best way to get this accomplished.
Pro/rel and salary cap are oposits.One benefits competition , the game and the fans; the othe benefits the owners by helping them keep expenses low.
Pro/rel in american soccer makes too much sense to keep been ignored.
Roger

By: Kevin

Kevin — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:54:04 +0000

Astonishingly poorly written and filled with unsubstantiated conjecture.

“It seems to me that most of the people would welcome a self destruction of MLS & USL and start from scratch again.”

Really? “Most of the people”?

Reading this and commenting was a big waste of time.

By: Chris in Belfast

Chris in Belfast — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:49:14 +0000

I’m sorry… I’m not certain you’re aware of the internal contradiction of your post.