31 Responses

  1. Nicolas
    Nicolas
    November 11, 2009 at 6:29 pm | | Reply


    I am a big fan of this website and your work, but I must say that the cities named in this article for expansion are absolutely ridiculous!!! Incredibly small markets to say the least…

    1. Matthew N
      Matthew N
      November 11, 2009 at 6:45 pm | | Reply


      Yeah… People bitch about Columbus not getting enough fans.. Put a club in Mississippi or Des Moines for a few years and you’ll see something to really complain about. This country isn’t ready for soccer yet, so any expansion needs to be planned with great caution. The worst thing that could happen would be for upstart franchises to fail after the honeymoon period is over.

      1. Bobby Brandon
        Bobby Brandon
        November 11, 2009 at 6:49 pm | | Reply


        I see where you guys are coming from, and I’m not expecting 20-30,000 in these places. Not at all. 5-10,000 is what I’m aiming for.

        I realize that there are larger cities, like Atlanta, that offer a much easier profit but everyone knows about those cities and what they can do, I was talking about under the radar cities.

    2. Adam Edg
      November 11, 2009 at 7:24 pm | | Reply


      AS a Des Moines native and Menace supporter, I can assure you that we are a soccer city. I read somewhere recently that our “midsize market” (professional jargon for permanently in the minor leagues) has like the second highest number of soccer players in the country per capita. Soccer is fairly huge here. We boast strong immigrant communities from Africa, Bosnia, Mexico, and Central America. These are soccer cultures.
      As far as local colleges Drake draws well and is hosting the Missouri Valley Conference tournament this year. DIII Simpson draws about as big of a crowd for soccer as they do for American football. Grand View is a NAIA powerhouse. All three programs attract players from around the globe.
      The Menace are a PDL powerhouse both off and on the field. Their record, USOC success, division and league championships speak for themselves. Leading the PDL in attendance every year and drawing better than a few USL-1 & all USL 2 teams (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1135373&page=6). Columbus Crew members Ezra Hendrickson and Andy Gruenebaum are both Menace alumni. As are Wizards players Michael Krause & Kevin Souter, Sounders player Lamar Neagle, Red Bulls player Leonard Krupnik, and Dynamo player Danny Cruz. That is not taking into account the players in USL1 & 2 or elsewhere.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Des_Moines_Menace
      Are we an MLS market? Heck no. But we are big enough and ready for a USL-1/TOA-league team.

      1. Chris in Belfast
        Chris in Belfast
        November 11, 2009 at 9:08 pm | | Reply


        Thank you, Adam. I get so sick of having to defend Des Moines to people. The Menace outdraw many USL-1 teams, and I’m confident that support would increase if the team played in a bigger league.

        To be honest, I think (perhaps crazily) that Des Moines would really love to have a legit, top level pro-team, and that the demographics in Des Moines would support MLS at least as far as attendance is concerned. The team could put Wells Fargo or Principal on the front of the kit and have immediate local connections, too. But there aren’t nearly enough eyeballs in the area to justify a Des Moines team based on TV numbers.

        I’d love to see the Menace step into a purpose built stadium and move up to USL-1/TOA, though. The question I’d ask you, Adam, is where to put the stadium. I’d rather not see something like that in the suburbs, and looking at Google Maps it looks like there’s some open area near Tuttle and SW 9th, fairly near downtown, Principal Park, and Wells Fargo Arena. Do you think something like that could work? Is that area of town still undeveloped? Despite working down there for the last summer before I left for school, I’m not sure if there’s anything in that particular spot or not.

        1. Adam Edg
          November 11, 2009 at 10:39 pm | | Reply


          The area you reference is actually being developed right now. The Stetson building is being torn down and a new hotel is going up right around there. I work right across the street and have thought many times that that would be a great spot for a SSS. The fact that the bus depot is right there also increases its ability to draw fans.
          My other pick would be off the southside/highway 5 bypass. That way it is highly accessible, within the city limits (potentially) and near the airport, hotels, etc. The area of Urbandale previously explored would not be too bad as it is highly accessible as well. Waukee is too far away from the interstate and the eastern burbs are too far away from the core supporters and $$$.

  2. Kartik Krishnaiyer
    November 11, 2009 at 6:50 pm | | Reply


    Folks, MLS isn’t the only league around and Bobby is mentioning good cities for USL or the TOA league as well as potential MLS cities down the road.

    This list omits current MLS/USL-1/USL-2 cities. It is an appropriate list. We have three tiers of pro soccer in this country, not just one.

    For the game to grow, all three tiers need to be healthy and well supported.

    1. Bobby Brandon
      November 11, 2009 at 10:28 pm | | Reply


      Yea, that’s what I was going after.

      Trust me, I’m under no illusions that these towns could up and support an MLS team right away.

      You have to remember that bigger cities don’t have a great history of supporting minor league teams. It’s an ego thing. This is why Charleston, a mid-level “market” in South Carolina, is home to one of the most stable teams in the USL. USL-1 is just right for Charleston, and it should be aiming for more cities like Charleston. Greensboro, for instance, is perfect. It’s only real pro competition is a single-A baseball team — the Grasshoppers.

      Ideally, and I realize how unlikely it is, I’d like for every sizable town to have a team. An extremely rationalized third and fourth tier could accommodate that, and possibly create some real local rivalries.

  3. Phil
    Phil
    November 11, 2009 at 7:43 pm | | Reply


    BALTIMORE all I have to say Crystal Palace !

  4. dan
    dan
    November 11, 2009 at 9:22 pm | | Reply


    well Dayton, Ohio would be a good market for like a USL or TOA. Not MLS though. But a ton of People show up all the time at Dayton’s Airforce Base for The Summer High School Tourniments.

  5. Derek
    Derek
    November 11, 2009 at 9:59 pm | | Reply


    All good cities for future USL-1/TOA League expansion. I would like to boast a few potential Florida cities and add Orlando, and, a serious dark horse, Key West.

    Orlando is a no brainer for 2nd tier soccer. And it would make for a good rivalry with Miami and Tampa Bay. Let me explain Key West: Yes it’s out of the way a bit, and a loooooooong bus ride on the Overseas Highway. But if teams can fly to PR they can fly to Key West. The reason I think a USL level team could work there is because it’s an isolated town(with a Navy base) with nothing to do but drink and chill on the beach. Having their first ever pro sports franchise would be something to rally around. Conch Republic FC!

    Of course, they have no potential investors(short of maybe Jimmy Buffet or city native MLB player Bronson Arroyo), and a high school stadium, so it’s highly unlikely, but I think it could work.

    1. Bobby Brandon
      November 11, 2009 at 10:22 pm | | Reply


      Haha, Conch Republic FC. That’d be awesome.

  6. Sheldon Grizzle
    November 11, 2009 at 10:56 pm | | Reply


    Chattanooga has definitely become quite the little soccer town over the last few years. Chattanooga FC is just adding some gasoline to the fire! For any true soccer fans who enjoy quality soccer gear, check out http://www.chattanoogafc.com/page/gear as there is a bunch of pretty cool CFC merchandise available. The club has been able to connect with fans (self-proclaimed Chattahooligans) and have been successful in creating a tribe mentality. In fact, the club is expecting to draw 5000 fans per match in the 2010 season. For soccer fans, Chattanooga is definitely an exciting place to be these days. Come check it out next summer!

  7. Joe in Indianapolis
    Joe in Indianapolis
    November 12, 2009 at 12:11 am | | Reply


    Sadly, there is no demand in Indianapolis.

  8. Jeff C.
    Jeff C.
    November 12, 2009 at 12:33 am | | Reply


    I would love to see a team in Indianapolis. It’s the 14th largest city in the country (although only the 33rd largest metropolitan area). It has a soccer-specific stadium, Kuntz Stadium, although with a limited seating capacity of not much more than 5000, it would need expansion. It did a good job of hosting the US Open Cup final in 1997, with a crowd of nearly 10,000 (Wikipedia’s report on the match is wrong in one respect, by the way: the match was held not at Kuntz Stadium, but at the IUPUI track and field stadium, which seats somewhere around 12,000). The failure of the A-League Indiana Blast, which folded in 2004, would surely be a major strike against the city, although the Blast weren’t helped by the fact that they were awful. Another strike against would be that a team here would be battling with the Ice (minor league hockey) for the role of fourth most important pro team in the city, behind the Colts, Pacers, and Indians. And, as Joe suggests above, there doesn’t seem to be any groundswell pushing for a team. It’s too bad, really–this is a great sports city, and I do think that a properly run team could succeed here, but I don’t see it happening.

    1. Kartik Krishnaiyer
      November 13, 2009 at 9:23 am | | Reply


      I am stunned USL has not gone back to Indy since 2004. It was a solid market for the league before the Blast went really bad.

      1. JMB321
        JMB321
        November 13, 2009 at 3:37 pm | | Reply


        Bet the TOA will have a team in Indy within 2 years. Any takers?

  9. Rob
    Rob
    November 12, 2009 at 12:49 am | | Reply


    I didn’t go as far into this as you did but I was thinking the other day of Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. One google search of Soccer in Edmonton returned one of the most organized amateur soccer sites I’ve ever seen: http://www.edsa.org/site/

    I did the same for Calgary, Alberta; which returned a site which wasn’t as impressive as Edmonton’s, but it was still a start: http://www.cusa.ab.ca/league.php?scriptName=HOME&leagueID=1000

    Point is, I think Alberta (Edmonton more likely) could be a home to soccer in the long-term future. It’s just a hunch but I think its worth looking into.

  10. Pat
    Pat
    November 12, 2009 at 8:56 am | | Reply


    Nashville. It’s in the middle of the state which is becoming more of a soccer state every year. There was an incredible showing for the US vs. Trinidad/Tobago World Cup qualifier. Plus it’s a good distance for other TN city supporters to attend games (Chattanooga, mentioned above, Jackson and even Memphis).

    There definitely needs to be more professional teams in the south.

    1. Jonesta
      Jonesta
      November 12, 2009 at 3:03 pm | | Reply


      I couldn’t agree more with the fact that the South needs some teams. We especially need an MLS side so we can get behind a team. DC United is too far away for most of the South (like myself) to support. I was at that US vs Trinidad & Tobago match, I drove up to Nashville from Auburn (best 6 hour trip I have ever taken btw), and had a blast watching Jozy put 3 up on the lil’ Islanders. If an MLS side could draw half of the support that made it out to that game it would be a viable option for expansion.

    2. AB
      AB
      November 13, 2009 at 9:04 am | | Reply


      I’d be all in for a Nashville team. With small pockets of support like Chattanooga near by, you would have more than just a citywide audience. When your roots are in the South, it’s very very hard to pick an MLS team to be *your* team. You feel like you’re settling.

  11. Vnice
    Vnice
    November 12, 2009 at 11:44 am | | Reply


    I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE small-market soccer. I love minor league baseball for the same reasons. I like when small cities and towns rally around a team in a small park. That said, the stadiums you posted are great. I was really surprised.

    About Louisville…that stadium is so boss. It reminds me of old English football stadiums. Minor renovation could turn it into a real-deal SSS. The turf is a bit of a downer, but…what can you do? Unfortunately, as much as I’d love to see soccer being played here, I don’t think it will happen, at least not on MLS levels. And I think only MLS could pack that stadium…USL/TOA games would probably be relatively empty.

    But man…that stadium is cool. I love old baseball stadiums. It’s just crazy how well suited it is for soccer…a lot like PGE in Portland.

  12. nathan3e
    nathan3e
    November 12, 2009 at 12:52 pm | | Reply


    Morrison Stadium is indeed very nice. There are actually things to do in Omaha, which shocked the hell out of us when we were there.

  13. Jordy
    November 12, 2009 at 1:39 pm | | Reply


    I have to say, I think an MLS/USL team could be very successful in Omaha. As stated above, Creighton already has strong soccer roots in the city. And Omaha has a tradition of supporting pro sports that are played at “less than the highest level” i.e. the Omaha Beef of the IFL and various sub-NHL pro hockey teams.

    An MLS team would be the highest profile pro team in a region without any real pro sports. Sure, the Cornhuskers will always be the top draw, but it’s not impossible that people will throw themselves behind soccer the same way they have for the College World Series — Omahans love claiming things as their own.

    @nathan3e Shocking right?

  14. Rex
    Rex
    November 12, 2009 at 2:00 pm | | Reply


    MLS attendance is fine. MLS needs TV ratings. For TV ratings you need good attendance but more importantly you need big markets. You could have a team in Iowa, but you would need to market it from Nebraska to Wisconsin to give them a reason to watch on TV.

    1. Chris in Belfast
      Chris in Belfast
      November 12, 2009 at 6:26 pm | | Reply


      exactly. That’s why Des Moines could work as a USL/TOA club, but not MLS. Folks from Des Moines know that, but we also get a bit tetchy when people assume that no-one would show up to a game or make assumptions about the city when they have no first hand knowledge. It’s kind of annoying.

  15. kginkc
    kginkc
    November 12, 2009 at 2:15 pm | | Reply


    Where are the corporate sponsors/ private owners of these expansion team possibilities once the USL and TOA revenue model settles down? I don’t argue the soccer history and fan base for these towns mentioned. It would be AWESOME to have coast to coast soccer mania in this country. My question concerns the business viability of these markets. In these tough econmic times, folks are holding on to their funds tightly and rightly so. Do these teams need loans to make them meet payroll or are ticket receipts, merchandising, tv-radio contracts enough to keep the lights on? Transportation would be a huge factor, I can see a midwest circuit, a southeast circuit, a mid atlantic circuit, a great lakes circuit working very well. Much like how PDL is structured, just up the development and underwriting.

  16. Ed Kirby
    Ed Kirby
    November 12, 2009 at 2:20 pm | | Reply


    I was surprised when Bobby included St. John’s, Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada, in his list of places where minor league professional soccer might work because we’re far away from any other place he mentioned. The city has a three-year-old 5,500-seat Field Turf facility (currently being repaired following flooding), and an indoor practise facility is under construction. There are about 185,000 people living in the metro area, and there is a history of public support for the game, most recently in 2008 when the national amateur men’s Challenge Cup and women’s Jubilee Shield championships were held here. Several thousand youngsters play in various youth leagues, and the St. John’s Soccer Club has a training agreement with Leicester City of the English League Championship. So, there is interest in the game, for sure. There’s an international airport with connections through Newark, about three hours away by jet, and if by some miracle a minor pro team sets up shop here, mark me down for a season ticket.

  17. evan eleven
    evan eleven
    November 12, 2009 at 3:04 pm | | Reply


    Salinas, California! the Monterey Bay Area is big enough and rich enough to support a team and the Salinas Sports Complex has a great stadium. the California Jaguars won a USL championship in 1996, but folded after five years… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Jaguars

  18. Steve
    Steve
    November 13, 2009 at 9:44 am | | Reply


    Tulsa definitely belongs on this list. The city still has fond memories of the NASL Roughnecks, and the University of Tulsa draws strong support for its successful soccer programs. The city usually gets mentioned in the early rounds of MLS expansion talk, but I’m shocked that the city has been without even a USL team since 1999. It is a tough market, with OU, OSU, TU and ORU, as well as high school football, minor league baseball and arena football, but a well managed upper level minor league soccer team could do well with the right ownership.
    Maybe the TOA could fix this and find a strong ownership group in Tulsa in their mad scramble for teams next year. It’d give St. Louis a geographic rival in the league, and there are easy air connections from Tulsa to Atlanta and Minneapolis.
    Barring that, it’d be nice to see a PDL team playing at the University of Tulsa’s beautiful soccer complex.

  19. Jeff
    Jeff
    May 17, 2010 at 1:24 am | | Reply


    What about Indianapolis? Indianapolis is one of the few top 12 sized cities in the U.S to not have an MLS team. The currently have the Colts in the NFL, the Pacers in the NBA, the Fever in the WNBA, the Indianapolis Speedway, the Indians in Minor league baseball, and the Ice in minor league hockey. Indianapolis is a city of around 1 million, but the city is spread out. There is plenty of room for an MLS expansion team to play. Indianapolis needs a professional soccer team! The city is ready and the fan base is definitely strong enough for an MLS team to prosper as much as is possible for an MSL team.

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