Comments on: The Beckham Saga: Eurosnobbery 101

By: Beckham » The Beckham Saga: Eurosnobbery 101 | Major League Soccer Talk

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:23:37 +0000

[…] Kartik Krishnaiyer wrote an interesting post today on The Beckham Saga: Eurosnobbery 101 | Major League Soccer TalkHere’s a quick excerptEurosnobs have taken control of English language world football. Between the media whose primary focus is European leagues and European World Cup qualifying. […]

By: Nick Prodanovich

Nick Prodanovich — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:05:13 +0000

Three kittens,

Speaking as someone who was brought up in England and goes back frequently to see relatives and games, and as person that has been an MLS Season Ticket holder from day 1, I’m in a pretty good position to provide a reasonable perspective.

First, as usual, without spending the time to really watch MLS or the US National Team over a period of time, people tend to way underestimate the quality of play in the US and the steady progress the US has made in the last 10 to 20 years. MLS teams are much much better than people think, and the US National Team has progressed to be the dominant power in CONCACAF, where prior to 1990 it could not even qualify for the World Cup. Is that a first tier League and National Team, obviously not but it is a stark improvement over 20 years ago and the quality is continuing to improve.

As to the EPL and English National Team there are some significant facts that are ignored by my English supporters. First, the EPL only became a real top tier League when foreign players began to dominate the League and were bankrolled by massive amounts of TV money and rich foreign owners. The EPL is not an English League per se, it is an International League based in England.

The English National Team both benefits and suffers from its League primarily populated with foreign stars, but at the end of the day the English Team is vastly overrated. England won its last World Cup in 1966 almost a half century ago to the point of questioning whether this was really in the modern era of Football.

By: Johnathan Starling

Johnathan Starling — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:46:16 +0000

The Three Lions,

So England’s defeats to the US in 1950 or 1993 don’t count in that ‘The US has never beaten England’?

If you are going to spew garbage, please at least get your facts right.

By: The Three Lions

The Three Lions — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 07:58:28 +0000

You are having a laugh mate.

The United States is inconsequential on the world stage. What have the Yanks provided? A group of mediocre goal keepers and billionaire owners that cozy up to George Bush?

The US has never beaten England. In 1994 we won at Wembley. In 2005 under Sven we beat you on your soil. Last year we routed you again at Wembley.

The English league is the best league in the world. Most of the names of players thrown out above by the yank contingent are players lacking the quality to play in England. An American mate of mine goes on about some guy Blanco from the Chicago team but the truth is nobody in world football rates him and this fellow has never played Premiership football.

The American domestic league is second rate as is the American national side. Until you can defeat a European side of some quality your national team will always be second rate.

By: Enrique

Enrique — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 06:08:07 +0000

We cannot expect objectivity from the English press, we know there is a lot of sensationalism and England is not the only place. I think that there is an anti-Americanism, although I don’t want generalize but I think in some of the cases with these journalists they just can’t wait to pounce on America and ridicule it. The Mexican press and fans have admitted many times the joy the have on beating the US, because is one of the things that they can feel superior in, as we know, football transmits passion, pride, hope and many other feelings when it comes to team and country, sadly sometimes that nationalism makes us loose objectivity.

By: Curtis Spiteri

Curtis Spiteri — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 03:57:59 +0000

Good article, very well stated.

I love soccer, I watch it year round locally; regionally and soemtimes on the tube; I attend MLS games and support the game locally. I go to USNT games, youth games, Women’s games, high school games, middle school games and World Cup games.

But I’m sick of all the comparisons to Euro football or Latin American futbol. This is American (and Canadian) soccer. It’s our brand of the game and I’ll enjoy supporting it live and in person while Eurposers only watch FSC, GolTv and Setanta for their fix.

It’s the difference between having a girlfriend to make love to and watching porn on the internet. Let the Europsers have their porn, I’ll take the real thing in the flesh.

By: Modibo

Modibo — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 03:34:16 +0000

Oh, by the way I don’t really buy the bit about the Galaxy being the most popular US side for the past 12 years though — I think that’s a West Coast bias. I would hand that honor to DC United (though I’m a Fire fan myself).

By: Modibo

Modibo — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 03:32:53 +0000

I agree with most of what Krishnaier says here. I think that there is a difference between the play on the field in the US vs Europe, but that’s not Krishnaier’s primary point. He’s not even commenting on the level of skill or the consistency of the game, but the style. You can have an extremely talented team punting the ball up the wing all day long to Sir Stanley Mathews and you can have a crap pub team trying to play possession ball and failing miserably. Not to mention the difficulties of playing in the heat in the US summer and the tremendous distances traveled by teams in the US compared to tiny countries like England where you can take a cab to most of your domestic matches.

I think that Krishnaier is commenting on the power of the press, and unlike in other areas of journalism in football matters the British press count considerably more than the US press. And for good reason. But US fans buy into that; we discount our own football history and our own football experts. This is why Martin Rogers is so exceptional. I just started listening to MLS Talk and though I have read Rogers on Yahoo I could scarcely believe that I was hearing a man with an English accent take the US game and CONCACAF football seriously!

Culturally we somehow assume that “Americans” (people who speak American English) know less and more importantly care less about the game than people with foreign accents. And it ain’t necessarily so. So the Galaxy and AEG are not bush league for demanding more $$ for Beckham.

The issue of his value to the team and his effort is another matter — he’s been very erratic himself. Now, is that because the domestic game is erratic or is there a problem with the player? Well, Schelotto played a fine season without phoning it in like Beckham, and Blanco also managed to turn in excellent performances outside of July-Aug. Not every foreign player is cut out for MLS, but the Anglo press doesn’t think about the unique challenges that playing in the US pose. Neither, unfortunately, do many US fans who not only watch games on TV but LISTEN TO THE EUROPEAN COMMENTATORS while they are watching, folks. Ives Galarcep recently stated that when he’s watching games, he turns off the announcers (at least for domestic matches) because he recognizes that they skew his vision of the game. Most US fans are also affected by these announcers even if they’re not going out of their way to read news articles about football.

By: eplnfl

eplnfl — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 03:19:31 +0000

excellent stuff JVR

By: J.V.R.

J.V.R. — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:57:31 +0000

1– Beckham VOLUNTARILY signed with MLS
2– The MLS has previously boasted some top Latin players, some like Marco Ethceverry whom the anglosnobs have not heard of spent his prime in MLS. We also had Cienfuegoes, Valderamma, Moreno, Graziani, Cosmos, Valenica, Hurtdado, Savarese, Alvarez, Vega, etc, etc. All were prominent latino players. All played in a world cup at one time or another. Most spent multiple years in MLS. But to the anglo-eurosnob these names make no difference.
3– The point about an indigenous game is very true. The garbage trash league in australia resembles a the British game so you have english columnists and english commentators lauding the aussies as a world power while dismissing the US and MLS. The US game has become less euro oriented over the past 10–15 years and more latin oriented. That’s a threat to the euro way
4– Living in just about any American urban area is more comfortable for a latin player than living in any English urban area. Spanish is widely spoken and understood in the US and latin culture is very much part of the american way in 2009. While it’s not as comfortable as Spain, perhaps the English press after the defection of Angel to MLS saw the threat and without mentioning it sought to undermine the league and its credibility.
5– Their is no English “flavor” to the poster above. England has failed every time they have hired an English manager in the last ten years. Now they boast an Italian manager and a hodgepodge of tactics. The Swedish manager that departed did the same. How many English managers are in your domestic league? Did you know the US, whose best World Cup finish of the last 15 years matches your own has not been managed by a foreigner since early in 1995? Most of the managers in the US at either the MLS or USL level are either Americans or have lived in the country for a long time. An American “flavor” is developing while England has allowed the natural game from the British Isles to be subverted. Yet the Englishman that reads the jingoistic British press believes somehow he has conquered Europe and the world when a club side that plays in England but whose starting eleven boasts 9 foreign players is somehow “english.“
6– Beckham is doing this because of Capello. With little experience managing outside Europe, Capello seems to believe a player cannot take long plane flights and perform at the international level. Clearly, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Columbia, Mexico, the USA, etc prove his point. Or do they? These countries routinely have players globetrotting for international matches. Yet they remain competitive on the world stage and in many cases more competitive than England.

I could go on and on but you get my drift. Sing on brother Krishnaiyer.….….……