Comments on: Seattle Success … Good for MLS? http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/seattle-success-good-for-mls/3271 Daily Analysis of Major League Soccer Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:19:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: CarlosT http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/seattle-success-good-for-mls/3271#comment-11664 CarlosT Fri, 08 May 2009 09:15:39 +0000 http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=3271#comment-11664 Peter C: Yes, that's true. Since Paul Allen owns both Vulcan Sports Entertainment, which is a minority owner in the Sounders, and First and Goal, which operates Qwest, they'd be paying rent to themselves. It's still something they could choose to do, but it would be needlessly draining money off of the Sounders' books. But the deal is actually better than that because the Sounders get to control the revenue they raise from their games at Qwest. Basically, they're getting all the benefits the smaller soccer-specific stadiums confer with the advantage of being able to increase capacity at will. If the Sounders continue to have a great season, I could definitely see thirty thousand season tickets sold next year. Not having to pay rent is part of what allows the Sounders to create that sort of atmosphere that Sigi has been so impressed with. It's also what quelled any doubts MLS had about Qwest as a venue. But Joe Roth is the one who's putting up the majority of the money to run the whole shebang and it's his attitude and philosophy that sets the tone. Peter C: Yes, that’s true. Since Paul Allen owns both Vulcan Sports Entertainment, which is a minority owner in the Sounders, and First and Goal, which operates Qwest, they’d be paying rent to themselves. It’s still something they could choose to do, but it would be needlessly draining money off of the Sounders’ books. But the deal is actually better than that because the Sounders get to control the revenue they raise from their games at Qwest. Basically, they’re getting all the benefits the smaller soccer-specific stadiums confer with the advantage of being able to increase capacity at will. If the Sounders continue to have a great season, I could definitely see thirty thousand season tickets sold next year.

Not having to pay rent is part of what allows the Sounders to create that sort of atmosphere that Sigi has been so impressed with. It’s also what quelled any doubts MLS had about Qwest as a venue. But Joe Roth is the one who’s putting up the majority of the money to run the whole shebang and it’s his attitude and philosophy that sets the tone.

]]> By: Lars http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/seattle-success-good-for-mls/3271#comment-11547 Lars Tue, 05 May 2009 22:54:07 +0000 http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=3271#comment-11547 Peter, Management of a team is just as important as the players. What you are forgetting is that Seattle has been able to navigate their team through the best and worst of times, and find themselves in the MLS now. The Sounders FC is one of the strongest managed teams in North America. I would chalk this up to success just as much as anything else. Peter,

Management of a team is just as important as the players. What you are forgetting is that Seattle has been able to navigate their team through the best and worst of times, and find themselves in the MLS now. The Sounders FC is one of the strongest managed teams in North America. I would chalk this up to success just as much as anything else.

]]> By: Peter C http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/seattle-success-good-for-mls/3271#comment-11372 Peter C Sat, 02 May 2009 18:21:35 +0000 http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=3271#comment-11372 Good conversation. Lars: I have not forgotten that the Sounders were an existing USL team. As Art pointed out, there are a few holdovers, 6 at last count, but only 3 are getting minutes. In the first 6 games(540 minutes), Nyassi has played 113, Scott 446 and Le Toux 366. Levesque and Graham have a total of 5 minutes and Eylander will be Keller's backup all season. I think that adds up to Seattle being an expansion team. NJ: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the league mandated that all clubs were to have an academy and that academy graduates could be signed and not count towards the salary cap. eplnfl: The Marlins won in their 5th year. The Panthers made it to the Stanley Cup final in its 3rd year and have failed to make the playoffs in 10 of the 12 years since. It took the Heat 4 years to make the playoffs and and 17 years to win it all. The D-Backs are the exception, having won 100 games it its 2nd season and the Jags who made it to the conference final also in its 2nd year. Of course, the D-Backs early success came at an unsustainable financial cost that eventually led to the sale of the team. CarlosT: Is it true that the Sounders pay no rent? If so, how much does that contribute to the owners' ability to create the structure you have described? I believe RBNY pays $100,000 per game for Giants Stadium or $1,500,000 for the regular season. You can buy a lot of perks for that money. Good conversation.

Lars:
I have not forgotten that the Sounders were an existing USL team. As Art pointed out, there are a few holdovers, 6 at last count, but only 3 are getting minutes. In the first 6 games(540 minutes), Nyassi has played 113, Scott 446 and Le Toux 366. Levesque and Graham have a total of 5 minutes and Eylander will be Keller’s backup all season. I think that adds up to Seattle being an expansion team.

NJ:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the league mandated that all clubs were to have an academy and that academy graduates could be signed and not count towards the salary cap.

eplnfl:
The Marlins won in their 5th year. The Panthers made it to the Stanley Cup final in its 3rd year and have failed to make the playoffs in 10 of the 12 years since.
It took the Heat 4 years to make the playoffs and and 17 years to win it all.
The D-Backs are the exception, having won 100 games it its 2nd season and the Jags who made it to the conference final also in its 2nd year. Of course, the D-Backs early success came at an unsustainable financial cost that eventually led to the sale of the team.

CarlosT:
Is it true that the Sounders pay no rent? If so, how much does that contribute to the owners’ ability to create the structure you have described? I believe RBNY pays $100,000 per game for Giants Stadium or $1,500,000 for the regular season. You can buy a lot of perks for that money.

]]> By: Seybold http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/seattle-success-good-for-mls/3271#comment-11333 Seybold Sat, 02 May 2009 00:43:49 +0000 http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=3271#comment-11333 Joe in Indianapolis’s comments are very insightful about the Seattle Sounders and sense of community. That’s why we fought to keep the NASL/USL name “Sounders,” and why bringing Keller home was such a great move. Portland is going to be an outstanding addition because they have that same sense of community. Look out for 2011--the Portland fans will be nuts. They’ve traditionally been more energetic than Seattle fans, and will feel a keen need to make a big splash because of the rivalry with Seattle, and the standard Seattle fans are setting. Joe in Indianapolis’s comments are very insightful about the Seattle Sounders and sense of community. That’s why we fought to keep the NASL/USL name “Sounders,” and why bringing Keller home was such a great move.

Portland is going to be an outstanding addition because they have that same sense of community. Look out for 2011–the Portland fans will be nuts. They’ve traditionally been more energetic than Seattle fans, and will feel a keen need to make a big splash because of the rivalry with Seattle, and the standard Seattle fans are setting.

]]> By: Joe in Indianapolis http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/seattle-success-good-for-mls/3271#comment-11325 Joe in Indianapolis Fri, 01 May 2009 22:56:30 +0000 http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=3271#comment-11325 Don't get me wrong, I hope they never have a bad year. I'm also hoping this is the first team to make a serious push to win the CONCACAF Champion's League (in 2011). Don’t get me wrong, I hope they never have a bad year. I’m also hoping this is the first team to make a serious push to win the CONCACAF Champion’s League (in 2011).

]]> By: CarlosT http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/seattle-success-good-for-mls/3271#comment-11324 CarlosT Fri, 01 May 2009 22:28:57 +0000 http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=3271#comment-11324 Well Joe, I think the plan is to make sure we don't suck :) Seriously though, our owners, Hanauer and Roth particularly, wanted to do everything possible to make sure that we didn't have a first bad season and they wanted to avoid "expansion team" levels of performance as much as possible. A lot of effort went into analyzing the problems that previous expansion teams faced and how those could be avoided. Hanauer literally traveled the world looking for players, making long trips to South America and Africa. Roth has made a commitment that everything about the team, from training facilities to ticketing to marketing will be top notch and he's gotten a lot of help in that from the Seahawks organization. Sigi Schmid has noted publicly that his experience with the Sounders so far has been unique. If he says he needs something, the FO goes and gets it, no questions, no haggling. Those are the kind of thing that has made the difference so far. Well Joe, I think the plan is to make sure we don’t suck :) Seriously though, our owners, Hanauer and Roth particularly, wanted to do everything possible to make sure that we didn’t have a first bad season and they wanted to avoid “expansion team” levels of performance as much as possible. A lot of effort went into analyzing the problems that previous expansion teams faced and how those could be avoided. Hanauer literally traveled the world looking for players, making long trips to South America and Africa. Roth has made a commitment that everything about the team, from training facilities to ticketing to marketing will be top notch and he’s gotten a lot of help in that from the Seahawks organization. Sigi Schmid has noted publicly that his experience with the Sounders so far has been unique. If he says he needs something, the FO goes and gets it, no questions, no haggling. Those are the kind of thing that has made the difference so far.

]]> By: Joe in Indianapolis http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/seattle-success-good-for-mls/3271#comment-11323 Joe in Indianapolis Fri, 01 May 2009 22:06:27 +0000 http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=3271#comment-11323 Oscar, that may well be true. But you're talking about a few thousand fans who made the trip while everyone is still high on the Sounders and the Sounders are second place in the league. I'm talking more about when if they were to only win a handful of games and don't make the playoffs. Will there still be 20,000 proud season ticket holders the following year? Or will Qwest start to look more like Gillette. Oscar, that may well be true. But you’re talking about a few thousand fans who made the trip while everyone is still high on the Sounders and the Sounders are second place in the league. I’m talking more about when if they were to only win a handful of games and don’t make the playoffs. Will there still be 20,000 proud season ticket holders the following year? Or will Qwest start to look more like Gillette.

]]> By: eplnfl http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/seattle-success-good-for-mls/3271#comment-11320 eplnfl Fri, 01 May 2009 21:25:46 +0000 http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=3271#comment-11320 We shouldn't be fixated on the old expansion model as we are. That is we expect them to be terrible. Look at the recent expansions in the NBA, NFL, and MLB. The Marlins and D-Backs have won and the Cubs and many older teams are still waiting or can not possibly win again like Pittsburgh. The Heat in their short life have a ring and both the Jags and Panthers had early success. The way the US sports leagues are set up including MLS with salary caps, drafts, and free agency makes all things very equal quickly. In fact starting fresh may very well be perferred by many organizations. To see Seattle playing well is no surprise and we can only hope that the next few teams in perform as well. That applies to both the field activity and attendance wise. Maybe the Pacific Northwest is such a soccer hotbed that on the field performance won't matter too much. That will not be true in Philly where even Santa can be bored! We shouldn’t be fixated on the old expansion model as we are. That is we expect them to be terrible. Look at the recent expansions in the NBA, NFL, and MLB. The Marlins and D-Backs have won and the Cubs and many older teams are still waiting or can not possibly win again like Pittsburgh. The Heat in their short life have a ring and both the Jags and Panthers had early success.

The way the US sports leagues are set up including MLS with salary caps, drafts, and free agency makes all things very equal quickly. In fact starting fresh may very well be perferred by many organizations.

To see Seattle playing well is no surprise and we can only hope that the next few teams in perform as well. That applies to both the field activity and attendance wise. Maybe the Pacific Northwest is such a soccer hotbed that on the field performance won’t matter too much. That will not be true in Philly where even Santa can be bored!

]]> By: Oscar Baechler http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/seattle-success-good-for-mls/3271#comment-11316 Oscar Baechler Fri, 01 May 2009 20:38:42 +0000 http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=3271#comment-11316 Joe, Regarding how we handle defeat, you should have seen us when we lost to Chivas. It was the first sporting event I've been to where the team got two minutes of standing ovation...after losing. There's a lotta love in Jet City :) Joe,

Regarding how we handle defeat, you should have seen us when we lost to Chivas. It was the first sporting event I’ve been to where the team got two minutes of standing ovation…after losing.

There’s a lotta love in Jet City :)

]]> By: NJ http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/seattle-success-good-for-mls/3271#comment-11309 NJ Fri, 01 May 2009 15:43:02 +0000 http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=3271#comment-11309 Its a product of the system or league structure. By capping existing teams and not offering any incentive for development of youth talent that you can bring through the system. Each year can be a crap shoot for who is the best team. In reality a team could offer everyone a one yr contract and start over each year. With the same cap money as everyone else, they in theory should have an equal opportunity to succeed. It is a product of the parity of the league. Now is it good for the league. Yes, having a successful team on the pitch that draws in a great crowd each and every week can only add to the league. If Seattle can run the table and be league champions good for them. Remember Chicago did it. NJ Its a product of the system or league structure. By capping existing teams and not offering any incentive for development of youth talent that you can bring through the system. Each year can be a crap shoot for who is the best team. In reality a team could offer everyone a one yr contract and start over each year. With the same cap money as everyone else, they in theory should have an equal opportunity to succeed. It is a product of the parity of the league.

Now is it good for the league. Yes, having a successful team on the pitch that draws in a great crowd each and every week can only add to the league. If Seattle can run the table and be league champions good for them. Remember Chicago did it.

NJ

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