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	<title>Comments on: Narrow gap exists among USL, MLS teams</title>
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	<description>Daily Analysis of Major League Soccer</description>
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		<title>By: Peter C</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/narrow-gap-exists-among-usl-mls-teams/4656#comment-15897</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=4656#comment-15897</guid>
		<description>Wow, almost every subject has been hit in this conversation.
With apologies to specific commenters I&#039;d like to chime in as well.

US Open: plain and simple, it is the US national soccer championship. Any thought that MLS should withdraw completely would be an insult to the game in the US. I might go so far as to say that MLS would lose me as a supporter if they did such a thing. As for MLS playing too many games for them to put effort into the USOC, Man U played 67 games, excluding exhibitions and preseason. And before anyone replies &#039;well, look at how much they get paid&#039;, that&#039;s not what the game of soccer is about once you hit the field.

SuperLiga: Money, Money, Money. A SUM owned property, all revenues flow to the league, which then goes to support the roughly 9(?) teams that will lose money this year. Reschedule it, yes, play with the format, sure, eliminate it? when 75% of the MLS teams run in the black.

lack of depth: rosters reduced to 24(from 28) and no reserve league, compared to the Euro rosters of 40+ surely has an effect. So where did the money formerly spent on the reserve league go? Why didn&#039;t the salary cap go up more this year?

respect for MLS: I agree wholeheartedly that winning competitive international club competitions is the way. That means CONCACAF Champions league in particular. Imagine this, an MLS team wins the CCL, plays in the FIFA Club World Cup and plays a great game against Barca(OK I&#039;m dreaming there) or Estudiantes. Win or lose, playing well against great teams earns respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, almost every subject has been hit in this conversation.<br />
With apologies to specific commenters I&#8217;d like to chime in as well.</p>
<p>US Open: plain and simple, it is the US national soccer championship. Any thought that MLS should withdraw completely would be an insult to the game in the US. I might go so far as to say that MLS would lose me as a supporter if they did such a thing. As for MLS playing too many games for them to put effort into the USOC, Man U played 67 games, excluding exhibitions and preseason. And before anyone replies &#8216;well, look at how much they get paid&#8217;, that&#8217;s not what the game of soccer is about once you hit the field.</p>
<p>SuperLiga: Money, Money, Money. A SUM owned property, all revenues flow to the league, which then goes to support the roughly 9(?) teams that will lose money this year. Reschedule it, yes, play with the format, sure, eliminate it? when 75% of the MLS teams run in the black.</p>
<p>lack of depth: rosters reduced to 24(from 28) and no reserve league, compared to the Euro rosters of 40+ surely has an effect. So where did the money formerly spent on the reserve league go? Why didn&#8217;t the salary cap go up more this year?</p>
<p>respect for MLS: I agree wholeheartedly that winning competitive international club competitions is the way. That means CONCACAF Champions league in particular. Imagine this, an MLS team wins the CCL, plays in the FIFA Club World Cup and plays a great game against Barca(OK I&#8217;m dreaming there) or Estudiantes. Win or lose, playing well against great teams earns respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/narrow-gap-exists-among-usl-mls-teams/4656#comment-15863</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=4656#comment-15863</guid>
		<description>Superliga can be a big deal depending on the teams.  Dynamo have gained a lot of respect in Mexico because of Superliga (as well as champions league/cup).  The games i&#039;ve seen vs Pachuca (x2), Chivas, and America during superliga have been the most fun games ive seen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Superliga can be a big deal depending on the teams.  Dynamo have gained a lot of respect in Mexico because of Superliga (as well as champions league/cup).  The games i&#8217;ve seen vs Pachuca (x2), Chivas, and America during superliga have been the most fun games ive seen.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/narrow-gap-exists-among-usl-mls-teams/4656#comment-15860</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=4656#comment-15860</guid>
		<description>Bill, I agree with you on the superliga.  It&#039;s redundant and just an excuse to sell more tickets (the bragging rights already lie in the CCL or the old Concacaf Champions Cup, which the MLS should try its hardest to win).  However, everything else you said supports my belief that the MLS has absolutely nothing to gain by participating in this USOC tournament.  Nothing.

If they win, then they were &quot;supposed&quot; to win.  If they lose, then their overpriced talent just got beat by a bunch of minor leaguers.  MLS fans don&#039;t seem to brag about or show much pride in a USOC championship.  And, the tournament does NOTHING to determine which MLS team is the best.  They already have a way to determine that - first, the MLS Cup, and second, the regular season.

You say that they should try hard in every game they play.  That&#039;s easier said than when you consider the amount of games they play:  4-5 preseason games, 30 regular season games, 4-5 playoff games (for good teams), CCL games (which could be 6 or 8 games), and national team duty for certain players.

If the USOC was meaningful, then maybe they should be expected to give 110%.  Or if the players were being paid $8 million per season, maybe then.

If you can tell me one thing the MLS has to gain in the USOC, then maybe I&#039;ll change my mind.  But as it is, I&#039;m not only happy that the MLS is not trying, but I also advocate withdrawing completely from the competition ASAP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, I agree with you on the superliga.  It&#8217;s redundant and just an excuse to sell more tickets (the bragging rights already lie in the CCL or the old Concacaf Champions Cup, which the MLS should try its hardest to win).  However, everything else you said supports my belief that the MLS has absolutely nothing to gain by participating in this USOC tournament.  Nothing.</p>
<p>If they win, then they were &#8220;supposed&#8221; to win.  If they lose, then their overpriced talent just got beat by a bunch of minor leaguers.  MLS fans don&#8217;t seem to brag about or show much pride in a USOC championship.  And, the tournament does NOTHING to determine which MLS team is the best.  They already have a way to determine that &#8211; first, the MLS Cup, and second, the regular season.</p>
<p>You say that they should try hard in every game they play.  That&#8217;s easier said than when you consider the amount of games they play:  4-5 preseason games, 30 regular season games, 4-5 playoff games (for good teams), CCL games (which could be 6 or 8 games), and national team duty for certain players.</p>
<p>If the USOC was meaningful, then maybe they should be expected to give 110%.  Or if the players were being paid $8 million per season, maybe then.</p>
<p>If you can tell me one thing the MLS has to gain in the USOC, then maybe I&#8217;ll change my mind.  But as it is, I&#8217;m not only happy that the MLS is not trying, but I also advocate withdrawing completely from the competition ASAP.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/narrow-gap-exists-among-usl-mls-teams/4656#comment-15848</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=4656#comment-15848</guid>
		<description>Dave, I have to disagree with about everything you just said. However, your statements appear to be right in line with the MLS front office thinking. Thinking that goes something like this…

“Why should a MLS club put its best 11 players out on a field against a lower league team in the USOC? If they lose, MLS might be criticized as not being as good as we want people to believe, and we can’t have that. It’s better that the MLS clubs don’t start their best players.

&quot;Why try hard in the CONCACAF Champions League? These are the best teams in the region, and if they beat a MLS club, then we might be criticized as not being on par with the Mexican First Division, or even Costa Rica.

&quot;But here’s and idea. Let’s create our own tournament. We can call it the SuperLiga and we can play all the games here in the U.S. so that our teams will have the home field advantage. And even better, we can schedule it during the Mexican League offseason so they won’t be in shape. And then, when the MLS teams do well, we can argue that we’re the best league in the region.”

I don’t blame this mentality. MLS club owners have a lot of money invested in the league and are looking to protect their investment by making sure the league’s image doesn’t get devalued. But do you know what would add value to their image? Trying hard in every game they play! What happened Tuesday night was an embarrassment for MLS, no matter how you slice it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I have to disagree with about everything you just said. However, your statements appear to be right in line with the MLS front office thinking. Thinking that goes something like this…</p>
<p>“Why should a MLS club put its best 11 players out on a field against a lower league team in the USOC? If they lose, MLS might be criticized as not being as good as we want people to believe, and we can’t have that. It’s better that the MLS clubs don’t start their best players.</p>
<p>&#8220;Why try hard in the CONCACAF Champions League? These are the best teams in the region, and if they beat a MLS club, then we might be criticized as not being on par with the Mexican First Division, or even Costa Rica.</p>
<p>&#8220;But here’s and idea. Let’s create our own tournament. We can call it the SuperLiga and we can play all the games here in the U.S. so that our teams will have the home field advantage. And even better, we can schedule it during the Mexican League offseason so they won’t be in shape. And then, when the MLS teams do well, we can argue that we’re the best league in the region.”</p>
<p>I don’t blame this mentality. MLS club owners have a lot of money invested in the league and are looking to protect their investment by making sure the league’s image doesn’t get devalued. But do you know what would add value to their image? Trying hard in every game they play! What happened Tuesday night was an embarrassment for MLS, no matter how you slice it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/narrow-gap-exists-among-usl-mls-teams/4656#comment-15842</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=4656#comment-15842</guid>
		<description>Daniel, I think the USL lost the war when MLS convinced those teams in the Pacific NW to leave USL and join MLS.  And given that Montreal will likely be jumping ship, it looks like the MLS will have successfully cherry-picked the most successful, wealthiest USL clubs, which will lead to the eventual widespread belief that USL is the minor league.

I think the Open Cup format is not something most American fans are used to (even American soccer fans).  Heck, most people here don&#039;t even understand that the US Open golf tournament is actually open to you and me if we&#039;re good enough to qualify.

As I stated above, it&#039;s a great concept for those who grasp it.  But people here don&#039;t.  There&#039;s no analogous cup in baseball, football, basketball, etc., at least not here in the USA.

Also, it&#039;s hard to argue with the notion that the two leagues are equal when Seattle&#039;s attendance jumped a couple hundred percent upon joining MLS, and while the MLS&#039;s attendance is more than 10,000 fans per match higher than USL&#039;s.

All USOC &quot;upsets&quot; do is undermine what MLS is trying to achieve.  The upsets give nay-sayers more ammunition to call MLS a &quot;minor&quot; league, which is something it needs to protect against (given so many of its own players choose to move to the &quot;major&quot; leagues of Europe).

To me, the USOC represents division amongst US soccer fans at a time when we need to be united.  I&#039;m sorry that some older USL teams have lost out.  But it happens.  No use crying over spilt milk.  And I really hope that USL develops just as quickly and extensively as MLS has been developing.  But until USL starts drawing 15,000 fans to its matches and paying its players MLS-equivalent salaries, I think the MLS is right in dismissing the tournament.  MLS has nothing to gain by participating in it.  Just like the Boston Red Sox have nothing to gain by staging a big tournament with the Pawtucket Red Sox.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel, I think the USL lost the war when MLS convinced those teams in the Pacific NW to leave USL and join MLS.  And given that Montreal will likely be jumping ship, it looks like the MLS will have successfully cherry-picked the most successful, wealthiest USL clubs, which will lead to the eventual widespread belief that USL is the minor league.</p>
<p>I think the Open Cup format is not something most American fans are used to (even American soccer fans).  Heck, most people here don&#8217;t even understand that the US Open golf tournament is actually open to you and me if we&#8217;re good enough to qualify.</p>
<p>As I stated above, it&#8217;s a great concept for those who grasp it.  But people here don&#8217;t.  There&#8217;s no analogous cup in baseball, football, basketball, etc., at least not here in the USA.</p>
<p>Also, it&#8217;s hard to argue with the notion that the two leagues are equal when Seattle&#8217;s attendance jumped a couple hundred percent upon joining MLS, and while the MLS&#8217;s attendance is more than 10,000 fans per match higher than USL&#8217;s.</p>
<p>All USOC &#8220;upsets&#8221; do is undermine what MLS is trying to achieve.  The upsets give nay-sayers more ammunition to call MLS a &#8220;minor&#8221; league, which is something it needs to protect against (given so many of its own players choose to move to the &#8220;major&#8221; leagues of Europe).</p>
<p>To me, the USOC represents division amongst US soccer fans at a time when we need to be united.  I&#8217;m sorry that some older USL teams have lost out.  But it happens.  No use crying over spilt milk.  And I really hope that USL develops just as quickly and extensively as MLS has been developing.  But until USL starts drawing 15,000 fans to its matches and paying its players MLS-equivalent salaries, I think the MLS is right in dismissing the tournament.  MLS has nothing to gain by participating in it.  Just like the Boston Red Sox have nothing to gain by staging a big tournament with the Pawtucket Red Sox.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Feuerstein</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/narrow-gap-exists-among-usl-mls-teams/4656#comment-15829</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Feuerstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=4656#comment-15829</guid>
		<description>Dave, I disagree. Superliga is the bigger scam, while we need the US Open Cup. Being an MLS Supporter as well I think the Cup is needed to give the lower levels a chance to knock out the big boys. Most of the MLS Squads to care about it, so far only Houston&#039;s Dom Kinnear doesn&#039;t want to bother with it.

It&#039;s all about financial backing, all clubs with their own stadiums and not paying any rent for playing time and more TV coverage outside of the Final on FSC. Just the Final does no one any good. Also FSN Northwest who shows Portland Timbers games, just broadcasted their US Open Cup 3rd Round match against the Seattle Sounders. A positive step in the right direction, but their needs to be more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I disagree. Superliga is the bigger scam, while we need the US Open Cup. Being an MLS Supporter as well I think the Cup is needed to give the lower levels a chance to knock out the big boys. Most of the MLS Squads to care about it, so far only Houston&#8217;s Dom Kinnear doesn&#8217;t want to bother with it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all about financial backing, all clubs with their own stadiums and not paying any rent for playing time and more TV coverage outside of the Final on FSC. Just the Final does no one any good. Also FSN Northwest who shows Portland Timbers games, just broadcasted their US Open Cup 3rd Round match against the Seattle Sounders. A positive step in the right direction, but their needs to be more.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/narrow-gap-exists-among-usl-mls-teams/4656#comment-15807</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=4656#comment-15807</guid>
		<description>Not sure about your comment about the US Open Cup, it may not have the storied history of the FA cup, but it has been around for 95 years now. It&#039;s not like some half baked Don Garber scheme</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure about your comment about the US Open Cup, it may not have the storied history of the FA cup, but it has been around for 95 years now. It&#8217;s not like some half baked Don Garber scheme</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/narrow-gap-exists-among-usl-mls-teams/4656#comment-15795</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=4656#comment-15795</guid>
		<description>The US Open Cup and Superliga are both unnecessary.  They are great ideas to raise revenue and give non-stars playing time, and the US Open Cup tradition is one that I think we all agree would have been ideal to nurture.  It&#039;s a great concept, and if it had a 125 years of history behind it like the FA Cup, then I&#039;d be all for my MLS team trying all out during the middle of its regular season to win the cup.

But it doesn&#039;t.  Nobody cares about it except for USL fans and teams.  Furthermore, nobody WILL EVER care about it in the future.  It didn&#039;t develop like the FA Cup did.  Sorry, but the MLS is correct in dismissing it.  They&#039;ve got enough to deal with already, unlike the USL teams, who spend all season preparing for their match against some unsuspecting MLS benchwarmers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The US Open Cup and Superliga are both unnecessary.  They are great ideas to raise revenue and give non-stars playing time, and the US Open Cup tradition is one that I think we all agree would have been ideal to nurture.  It&#8217;s a great concept, and if it had a 125 years of history behind it like the FA Cup, then I&#8217;d be all for my MLS team trying all out during the middle of its regular season to win the cup.</p>
<p>But it doesn&#8217;t.  Nobody cares about it except for USL fans and teams.  Furthermore, nobody WILL EVER care about it in the future.  It didn&#8217;t develop like the FA Cup did.  Sorry, but the MLS is correct in dismissing it.  They&#8217;ve got enough to deal with already, unlike the USL teams, who spend all season preparing for their match against some unsuspecting MLS benchwarmers.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike FCNY</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/narrow-gap-exists-among-usl-mls-teams/4656#comment-15792</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike FCNY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=4656#comment-15792</guid>
		<description>The assertion that MLS reserve teams losing to USL teams in a cup that only hardcore soccer fans know of will lead to MLS bankruptcy is comical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The assertion that MLS reserve teams losing to USL teams in a cup that only hardcore soccer fans know of will lead to MLS bankruptcy is comical.</p>
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		<title>By: soccer goals</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/narrow-gap-exists-among-usl-mls-teams/4656#comment-15788</link>
		<dc:creator>soccer goals</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/?p=4656#comment-15788</guid>
		<description>I would agree. Thanks Mitch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree. Thanks Mitch.</p>
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