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	<title>Comments on: MLS Ranks Shockingly Low in IFFHS Study</title>
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	<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-ranks-shockingly-low-in-iffhs-study/647</link>
	<description>Daily Analysis of Major League Soccer</description>
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		<title>By: vince</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-ranks-shockingly-low-in-iffhs-study/647#comment-1746</link>
		<dc:creator>vince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think that your article is great. People who love mls try to make themselves think its better then it is for self-fulfilment. One aspect of a league that makes it entertaining is the stadium and crowd. i think as more mls teams get soccer-specific stadiums it will become more popular. for some reason i have a lot easier time watching toronto FC because of its passionate fans than any other team. the mexican league is a better league in my opinion even if mls beats them because their fans, players, and annoucers are crazy about the game. i mean absolutly crazy. and i think that makes it more enjoyable</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that your article is great. People who love mls try to make themselves think its better then it is for self-fulfilment. One aspect of a league that makes it entertaining is the stadium and crowd. i think as more mls teams get soccer-specific stadiums it will become more popular. for some reason i have a lot easier time watching toronto FC because of its passionate fans than any other team. the mexican league is a better league in my opinion even if mls beats them because their fans, players, and annoucers are crazy about the game. i mean absolutly crazy. and i think that makes it more enjoyable</p>
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		<title>By: Elninho</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-ranks-shockingly-low-in-iffhs-study/647#comment-1730</link>
		<dc:creator>Elninho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-ranks-shockingly-low-in-iffhs-study/647#comment-1730</guid>
		<description>A brief addendum: I encourage any of you who are interested to read the methodology on the IFFHS website.  I don&#039;t know if it is still there, but it certainly was for quite a few years.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Set up a hypothetical scenario in which MLS teams win EVERY game against foreign opposition in a calendar year, right up through the Club World Cup final.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s what I did in 2003 and 2004, and in both years, changing results so that MLS beat everyone to set up that all-MLS CONCACAF final, while Costa Rica and Guatemala lost to everyone, still would not have pulled MLS ahead of those two leagues on the &quot;points&quot; that the IFFHS was using.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A brief addendum: I encourage any of you who are interested to read the methodology on the IFFHS website.  I don&#39;t know if it is still there, but it certainly was for quite a few years.</p>
<p>Set up a hypothetical scenario in which MLS teams win EVERY game against foreign opposition in a calendar year, right up through the Club World Cup final.</p>
<p>That&#39;s what I did in 2003 and 2004, and in both years, changing results so that MLS beat everyone to set up that all-MLS CONCACAF final, while Costa Rica and Guatemala lost to everyone, still would not have pulled MLS ahead of those two leagues on the &#8220;points&#8221; that the IFFHS was using.</p>
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		<title>By: Elninho</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-ranks-shockingly-low-in-iffhs-study/647#comment-1729</link>
		<dc:creator>Elninho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The IFFHS rankings have been debunked over and over and over.  I don&#039;t need to do so again, but...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The IFFHS simply ranks leagues by the points earned in all competitions by the top 5 teams.  This is flawed because:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;1) It includes domestic competition, favoring leagues that have dominant clubs over those that are relatively competitive.  Likewise, in a small league, 5th is mid-table, while in larger leagues, 5th is in the top 25% and will pick up more points in domestic competition.  Furthermore, there is no adjustment for length of season, so longer seasons are overwhelmingly favored.  Finally, the points that IFFHS awards for a result in domestic competition are based on a subjective &quot;rating&quot; of the league - basically, nothing more than someone&#039;s opinion.  One has to wonder, of course, what the point of including the domestic results is, because all the clubs are only competing against each other!  I suspect that IFFHS did this so that the top 5-10 leagues would look subjectively correct, completely ignoring everything below that.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;2) If a club competing in international tournaments does not finish the season in the top five, the points it earns playing foreign opposition are worth NOTHING in this ranking.  Again, counterintuitive.  In MLS it is common for a team to play in CONCACAF competitions while propping up the bottom of the table - this should reflect on the league&#039;s strength, but instead the IFFHS evaluates it in the exact opposite way.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;3) The only weight to international games is what continent they&#039;re played on.  Smaller leagues rack up a lot of points in qualifying rounds for continental tournaments.  Also, Mexico, for example, is overrated not only from competing in two continents&#039; competitions, but from picking up points against domestic competition in the Interliga and Pre-Libertadores rounds.  Other Latin American leagues also gain points in domestic qualification rounds for the Copa Libertadores.  (See &lt;a href=&quot;http://rsssf.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;rsssf.com&lt;/a&gt; for confirmation that these games are played.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The end result?  A few years ago, I did the math, and showed that Guatemala and Costa Rica would ALWAYS be ranked ahead of MLS, even if all of their clubs crashed out of CONCACAF competitions in the first round and even if MLS teams won every game to produce an all-MLS final.  That is absolutely ludicrous, and serves as absolute proof of the meaninglessness of these rankings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The IFFHS rankings have been debunked over and over and over.  I don&#39;t need to do so again, but&#8230;</p>
<p>The IFFHS simply ranks leagues by the points earned in all competitions by the top 5 teams.  This is flawed because:</p>
<p>1) It includes domestic competition, favoring leagues that have dominant clubs over those that are relatively competitive.  Likewise, in a small league, 5th is mid-table, while in larger leagues, 5th is in the top 25% and will pick up more points in domestic competition.  Furthermore, there is no adjustment for length of season, so longer seasons are overwhelmingly favored.  Finally, the points that IFFHS awards for a result in domestic competition are based on a subjective &#8220;rating&#8221; of the league &#8211; basically, nothing more than someone&#39;s opinion.  One has to wonder, of course, what the point of including the domestic results is, because all the clubs are only competing against each other!  I suspect that IFFHS did this so that the top 5-10 leagues would look subjectively correct, completely ignoring everything below that.</p>
<p>2) If a club competing in international tournaments does not finish the season in the top five, the points it earns playing foreign opposition are worth NOTHING in this ranking.  Again, counterintuitive.  In MLS it is common for a team to play in CONCACAF competitions while propping up the bottom of the table &#8211; this should reflect on the league&#39;s strength, but instead the IFFHS evaluates it in the exact opposite way.</p>
<p>3) The only weight to international games is what continent they&#39;re played on.  Smaller leagues rack up a lot of points in qualifying rounds for continental tournaments.  Also, Mexico, for example, is overrated not only from competing in two continents&#39; competitions, but from picking up points against domestic competition in the Interliga and Pre-Libertadores rounds.  Other Latin American leagues also gain points in domestic qualification rounds for the Copa Libertadores.  (See <a href="http://rsssf.com" rel="nofollow">rsssf.com</a> for confirmation that these games are played.)</p>
<p>The end result?  A few years ago, I did the math, and showed that Guatemala and Costa Rica would ALWAYS be ranked ahead of MLS, even if all of their clubs crashed out of CONCACAF competitions in the first round and even if MLS teams won every game to produce an all-MLS final.  That is absolutely ludicrous, and serves as absolute proof of the meaninglessness of these rankings.</p>
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		<title>By: jmt21</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-ranks-shockingly-low-in-iffhs-study/647#comment-1722</link>
		<dc:creator>jmt21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>none of the  south American leagues are  all that good, mostly because all the young talent is quickly signed by European teams. MLS could very easily compete with these leagues if only they had more teams.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>none of the  south American leagues are  all that good, mostly because all the young talent is quickly signed by European teams. MLS could very easily compete with these leagues if only they had more teams.</p>
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		<title>By: jmt21</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-ranks-shockingly-low-in-iffhs-study/647#comment-1721</link>
		<dc:creator>jmt21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The lack of teams is probably the reason for the low rankings... but even then, in terms of competition and on individual player skills the mls is better than almost any league in the western hemisphere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lack of teams is probably the reason for the low rankings&#8230; but even then, in terms of competition and on individual player skills the mls is better than almost any league in the western hemisphere.</p>
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		<title>By: dp</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-ranks-shockingly-low-in-iffhs-study/647#comment-1719</link>
		<dc:creator>dp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>your nuts, the argentinian league is arguably the best league in south american, just as competitive but better quality of play than brazilian, people just dont follow it as much. there used to be parity in that league, but now the quality is spread throughout. the argentinian league is the biggeest exporter of the best players in the world. look how many argentinians play in germany, italy, EPL, brazil, spain, and so on....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>your nuts, the argentinian league is arguably the best league in south american, just as competitive but better quality of play than brazilian, people just dont follow it as much. there used to be parity in that league, but now the quality is spread throughout. the argentinian league is the biggeest exporter of the best players in the world. look how many argentinians play in germany, italy, EPL, brazil, spain, and so on&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-ranks-shockingly-low-in-iffhs-study/647#comment-1718</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@Johnny&lt;br&gt;Beckham was a non factor on that game. So was Ronaldinho. Pato and Ambrosini&#039;s introduction saved Milan&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;@BW&lt;br&gt;- Check out the CONCACAF Champions League where USL teams like Montreal and Puerto Rico saved the reputation of US based leagues. You must have missed that.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;- Argentines in MLS? The best ones are already in Europe. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;- If MLS teams are so superior, how come they can&#039;t dominate CONCACAF Mickey Mouse tournaments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Johnny<br />Beckham was a non factor on that game. So was Ronaldinho. Pato and Ambrosini&#39;s introduction saved Milan</p>
<p>@BW<br />- Check out the CONCACAF Champions League where USL teams like Montreal and Puerto Rico saved the reputation of US based leagues. You must have missed that.</p>
<p>- Argentines in MLS? The best ones are already in Europe. </p>
<p>- If MLS teams are so superior, how come they can&#39;t dominate CONCACAF Mickey Mouse tournaments?</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-ranks-shockingly-low-in-iffhs-study/647#comment-1717</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>- Rankings as a whole don&#039;t matter  (see the that ridiculous US and Czech Republic ranking at the last World Cup )&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;- The Champions League and its previous format proved that MLS is not in any sort of shape to be compared to England&#039;s Championship or the top flight of Mexico. I&#039;d take those results more over rankings.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;- Pointless friendly games are such fools gold in terms of comparing one&#039;s league with others. Brag about beating Chelsea, West Ham, and Fulham at your own peril. On the other hand, a Japanese team missing so many Japaneses internationals thrashed  the Dynamo. Both were in pre season.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;- Competitive? If I want competitive, I&#039;d tune into NFL.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;- Deluded MLS fans? As long as the likes of the Lalas brothers make a living off soccer, it&#039;s reasonable to have so many out of touch people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>- Rankings as a whole don&#39;t matter  (see the that ridiculous US and Czech Republic ranking at the last World Cup )</p>
<p>- The Champions League and its previous format proved that MLS is not in any sort of shape to be compared to England&#39;s Championship or the top flight of Mexico. I&#39;d take those results more over rankings.</p>
<p>- Pointless friendly games are such fools gold in terms of comparing one&#39;s league with others. Brag about beating Chelsea, West Ham, and Fulham at your own peril. On the other hand, a Japanese team missing so many Japaneses internationals thrashed  the Dynamo. Both were in pre season.</p>
<p>- Competitive? If I want competitive, I&#39;d tune into NFL.</p>
<p>- Deluded MLS fans? As long as the likes of the Lalas brothers make a living off soccer, it&#39;s reasonable to have so many out of touch people.</p>
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		<title>By: BW</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-ranks-shockingly-low-in-iffhs-study/647#comment-1716</link>
		<dc:creator>BW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>MLS is actually a top 10 league by almost any standard.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Look at the number of Argentine players who have left Argentina to join MLS. They have come for better pay and a better standard of play. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I believe MLS is the best league in the Americas. If we were able to buy our way into the Copa Libertadoras the way the Mexican league has we&#039;d show up all of these leagues ahead of us in this list: I include Argentina and Brazil in that list.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The CONCACAF competitions are mickey mouse. When something was on the line namely, a million dollars MLS teams have dominated Superliga. Three semifinalists in 2007 and an all MLS final in 2008. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Look at how well so many former MLS players have fit into the Premier League and Bundesliga. Most european scouts would admit MLS is the best league outside Europe which is why they mine it for so much talent. If Mexico is so good why do so many Mexican league players struggle in Europe? They cannot cope anywhere but Mexico.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MLS is actually a top 10 league by almost any standard.</p>
<p>Look at the number of Argentine players who have left Argentina to join MLS. They have come for better pay and a better standard of play. </p>
<p>I believe MLS is the best league in the Americas. If we were able to buy our way into the Copa Libertadoras the way the Mexican league has we&#39;d show up all of these leagues ahead of us in this list: I include Argentina and Brazil in that list.</p>
<p>The CONCACAF competitions are mickey mouse. When something was on the line namely, a million dollars MLS teams have dominated Superliga. Three semifinalists in 2007 and an all MLS final in 2008. </p>
<p>Look at how well so many former MLS players have fit into the Premier League and Bundesliga. Most european scouts would admit MLS is the best league outside Europe which is why they mine it for so much talent. If Mexico is so good why do so many Mexican league players struggle in Europe? They cannot cope anywhere but Mexico.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny</title>
		<link>http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-ranks-shockingly-low-in-iffhs-study/647#comment-1715</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ummm yeah, I dispute any list that has the Spainish league behind a league in Argetina????? Come on, its ridiculous -- the MLS isn&#039;t perfect but don&#039;t try to tell me its below the league in Peru or any other South American country.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;MLS, thought its not a top tier league, is still a bonafide league that has strong competition all around. Did David Beckham not fit in quite nicely to the game in Rome on sunday? And is he not an MLS player?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Let&#039;s see any league in south america make that claim (excluding of course the Brazilian league)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ummm yeah, I dispute any list that has the Spainish league behind a league in Argetina????? Come on, its ridiculous &#8212; the MLS isn&#39;t perfect but don&#39;t try to tell me its below the league in Peru or any other South American country.</p>
<p>MLS, thought its not a top tier league, is still a bonafide league that has strong competition all around. Did David Beckham not fit in quite nicely to the game in Rome on sunday? And is he not an MLS player?</p>
<p>Let&#39;s see any league in south america make that claim (excluding of course the Brazilian league)</p>
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